Do you truly believe Switzerland is at risk of an Islamic invasion? How do people on a platform such as HN fall for such obviously falsifiable statements? The initiative is obviously part of the global right-wing populist trend. Countries in the EU are dependent on immigration for maintaining their economies and public infrastructure as the population ages. I'm not Swiss, but the current government in Sweden has been going through with similar anti-criminal/anti-bad-immigrant (racist) politics and rethoric for four years now. As a result, there are now elderly care centers in parts of the country where 25% of all personnel have been expelled, children and even babies are taken back to their "home countries" without their parents and major domestic industry organisations are turning on the politicians they have fostered as the detrimental economic policies are killing low-wage industries in Sweden.
I don't know if you've lived in an Islamic country but I have. In fact I was born there and spent more than half my life under Islamic law. More to it, I am the same brown minority that you seek to defend by posting this.
Westerners are so naive, Islam's objective is to grow and convert as many people as possible. To this end, they have been building mosques all over the world, increasing their population and weaponizing immigration. There is a reason Muslim countries don't allow Christians, Jews and other faiths to flourish in their homes.
Now, is this applicable to all Muslims? Of course not. But don't be naive and think that no one has an agenda. Case in point, my family has Muslims (Shia) and there are some of them I wouldn't want in the West.
No one is advocating for an immigration ban here, or is attempting to bar Muslims. Suggesting caps and enforcing sane limits is a good thing. Nations need to vet their applicants thoroughly before letting them in.
As a final note, I think that immigration is a band-aid for the population collapse in the West. The real issue is the underlying culture change. Perhaps a better avenue is to focus inward and promoting family values instead of outwards to resolve the issue?
Perhaps a better avenue is to focus inward and promoting family values instead of outwards to resolve the issue?
Inwards is the right answer, but it's not about lack of family values. It's the lack of stability and belief that people can give a good life to their offspring. We need to retreat from this capitalistic consume everything social structure and kids will naturally flow.
The problem with that is that the Pandora's box has been opened. We are trading with globalized world.
Europeans first stole the resources that fed the industrial revolution and enriched themselves at the loss of everybody else. Then with the US forced everyone to be part of "line always goes up" club, with extreme violence at the times.
You cannot just "exit" the club now. All rare metals, fruits, various produce, chemicals, clothing etc are sourced with the global trade network. Since everybody has to be in the "line goes up or else" club, (we) Europeans have to continue the saga to not lose the entire civilization we have now. Nobody except very big nations with rich resources can afford pulling the plug and be self sufficient.
If you are not joining the ponzi scheme, you cannot buy shit. Without buying rare elements you cannot make advanced silicon, computers, solar cells, batteries. All engineering, medicine, food needs the ruthless capitalism. You cannot quit without turning the world upside down again. And who are you going to force through the inevitable meat grinder?
> To this end, they have been building mosques all over the world, increasing their population and weaponizing immigration ... Now, is this applicable to all Muslims? Of course not. But don't be naive and think that no one has an agenda.
As opposed to the Catholic Church never ever building Basilicas and Cathedrals? Places of worship are social and political centers given how Abrahamic religions work.
> There is a reason Muslim countries don't allow Christians, Jews and other faiths to flourish in their homes.
Met a Copt the other day: Seemed content and had no complains. Spoke to a Rūm a while ago, and despite the recent turn of events, they seemed optimistic about the Levant. The only Assryian I know complained about the US-led war on Iraq uprooting their lives more than any previous regime. That isn't to say there aren't issues, but which society is without them? Especially when exaggerators & hypocrites are in no short supply, regardless of their socio-religious allegiance.
"I don't know if you've lived in an Islamic country but I have. In fact I was born there and spent more than half my life under Islamic law"
are you aware that not all islamic countries are the same, just as all christian countries are not the same. Perhaps you've let your view of your bubble in your home country colour your view of all others. I've been to muslim countries, most people don't care all that much about the west - certainly not enough to make a conspiracy to destroy it with immigration or whatever.
"Islam's objective is to grow and convert as many people as possible"
is it? says who? Why do you think there is one unified islam with one goal? As far as I'm aware, islam is not a prosetylising religion, who's out to convert who?
"building mosques all over the world"
yes when a bunch of religious people are in a place, they build a place of worship. From your comment history, you're apparently iranian - what exactly is sinister about building mosques?
"increasing population"
yes people like to do that, it's a rather enjoyable process, not exactly mindblowing thing to accuse people of.
"weaponizing immigration"
how? who is doing that? are these governments deliberately sending people over? Who are they sending? Why has no leak of this conspirary ever happened? Are multiple governments independantly doing this?
"There is a reason Muslim countries don't allow Christians, Jews and other faiths to flourish in their homes."
flourish in what sense? many muslim countries have other faiths there. These are the people of the book afterall. Some countries have sharia law that applies only to muslims - harsher laws only for the majority religion.
"No one is advocating for an immigration ban here, or is attempting to bar Muslims"
Yes people are, don't be naive, this is absolutely about muslims.
"promoting family values"
Or maybe the real reason people aren't having kids are climate anxiety and economic factors. It's not that people just suddenly hate families now. What do you even mean by "family values", send woman back to the kitchen and that'll make people have kids? I doubt that's what you mean so what is your solution?
>>"Islam's objective is to grow and convert as many people as possible" is it? says who?
Do you not learn anything about Islam in schools where you live? I'm sure you must have spent at least few hours at History class covering Islam expansion starting with Mohamed.
>> What do you even mean by "family values", send woman back to the kitchen and that'll make people have kids? I doubt that's what you mean so what is your solution?
You want more people from cultures who think exactly like that. You believe Muslim women should be baby factories for the West.
"Do you not learn anything about Islam in schools where you live? I'm sure you must have spent at least few hours at History class covering Islam expansion starting with Mohamed."
I am ex-muslim, I am aware of islamic history. And what of it? Do christians want to crusade for the levant still? Why are you pointing to literal ancient history?
"You want more people from cultures who think exactly like that"
Many don't think like this. I do not want or not want them.
"You believe Muslim women should be baby factories for the West."
No I don't, why would you think otherwise?
On second though, you simply extracted what things you could best insult me with from my reply and put words in my mouth, I will no longer be engaging in this. Goodbye.
I think they have a right to decide how they want their values and culture to be defined, and they can choose to start enforcing those at any given moment in however way they deem appropriate and necessary. Yes, it’s unfortunate to need immigration for your economy, but not at the sake of your values, customs, traditions, and principles.
I modestly propose a much better solution. 99% of perpetrators of sexual assault are men. Let's just ban all males regardless of race. Given the statistics, why would you want any men in your country?
Banning a gender is much less practical than banning people from another country (I'm not explicitly defending the parent - analogies are just mostly bad and distracting).
