Someone brought this up in a previous HN comment section as an example of trust in software ruining peoples lives. But your explanation is far more human and recontextualizes it a bit for me - it just happened to be that this was done with software, but the real motivation was contempt for the lower classes and could have easily have happened 100 years ago with an internal investigation task force.
Growing up half in England and US I feel British culture is more attuned to the class aspects to this kind of event. Traditionally America likes to pretend this kind of class contempt doesn't exist (think of, people on welfare angry at welfare queens, unaware they will be affected by legislation they support).
> Growing up half in England and US I feel British culture is more attuned to the class aspects to this kind of event. Traditionally America likes to pretend this kind of class contempt doesn't exist (think of, people on welfare angry at welfare queens, unaware they will be affected by legislation they support).
As an immigrant to the US from latin america that has spent significant time in britain, this statement is the complete opposite of my experience to the point of ridiculousness.
Britain is the most openly classist western country I have ever been in.
I think you misunderstood the parent post. It states people in the UK are more aware/recognizant of "class" - not that they are less classist (i.e. prejudiced)
The example of lower class people not recognizing so in the US is meant to be an example of lack of class awareness/recognition; not of less (or more) classism (prejudice based on class)
Most claims of racism in America are in fact classism. Very, very few people have actual dislike of others based on race. But a whole lot of people dislike people due to culture or class signals.
Since you brought it up, this political-leaning topic is fair game.
> Most claims of racism in America are in fact classism.
This is bald-faced racism denialism and makes a sweeping generalization. For example, the Trump administration is going after immigrants not for economic or class reasons but as a dogwhistle for their Floridian golf club members who don't like minorities of any sort and to appease a large section of the base of covert and overt racists generally. There is no logic in exiling and disappearing the low cost labor needed to product food, build homes, and do the terrible jobs that make civilization possible.. because it is mission of dumb people sabotaging themselves and others. The selective protection plus oppression and criminalization of undocumented people is grounded in the need to control a desperate, underpaid population to keep prices of agriculture, home construction, and restaurant prices lower than paying ordinary, livable wages to them.
> Very, very few people have actual dislike of others based on race.
You can't know this. And, it's leans towards false because of how propinquity works.
>ut as a dogwhistle for their Floridian golf club members who don't like minorities of any sort and to appease a large section of the base of covert and overt racists generally.
I mean, here's how I see it, if 100 million Polish people, a very white peoples, suddenly claimed asylum in the US, had 300 million anchor babies to exploit that loophole, used the anchor baby army to claim massive funds of welfare in aggregate, all the while claiming zero income while working under the table and undercutting the common man ... ... and also driving drunk and refusing to learn any English and demanding Americans ought to learn Polish
If the Polish people did that I'd have it in to deport them all. And it wouldn't be about race at all, it would be the overwhelming unfair advantages and systematic exploits the Polish performed in this case. The racist narrative is just another manifestation of "playing the race card" to defend indefensible, selfish, toxic behavior
what is racist in what you just said is you decided to bundle all the polish in one indiscriminate entity and punish them collectively despite knowing that some of them did not commit any crime. in fact you decided to sacrifice those because their lives are not worth your attention. and that's racist.
Good thing this scenario is entirely fictional. Even if it weren't completely made up, though, you'd still be ethically obligated to assess immigrants as individuals and not simply guilty by association, except perhaps under the most dire wartime circumstances.
You'd also be legally obligated, but to be lawful is not always the same thing as being ethical nor moral.
It would be challenging, I admit, considering the country will have doubled in size with half of them being infants that naturally don't speak English, or any language for that matter.
We really should close that loophole, though. And it definitely is a loophole and not the explicit intention of a constitutional amendment. An oversight to be sure.
Look over there were Law of Small Numbers can be applied to immigrants that commit crime and exploit the system. Don't believe me, here is a coherent story to help push the narrative. See that one person in this category did something bad so they are all bad!
Ignore all the wage thief and other crimes like poniz scheme's, multi level marketing scheme's, political bribery, and fraud. Those crimes just hurt millions upon millions. Don't look at those numbers, they are too big for anyone to under stand. Focus on that person's skin color and accent. They are the true criminals.
This propaganda is just sickening that it works all to well.
there's still regular ol classism, too, racism is just part of the calculus. Poor white folks don't have it good, they just have it less bad than poor not-white folks
Some bits here and there. That faded as the US became a super power, and came back a bit as the 80's started stripping down the middle class thst was growing.
Of course, but the 2010's it was decided by the powers that he to re-introduce identity politics as the new form of class warfare. Which was 80% sexism/racism and 20% classisn.
In America maybe, in south africa it's quite the opposite considering the government provides a lot more support for poor non-white folks than for white folks (specifically based om race)
Yes, a bastion of pro-black racism, post-apartheid South Africa.
All those white folks fleeing the country looking like the fucking Monopoly Man with their bags of money were doing it because of... anti-white racism.
Wealth is not the same as class, either. Even in America. A teacher with an annual salary of $60k is higher class than a plumber making $100k annually. Unless the teacher is black, of course, then racial elements of class come into play.
I agree that wealth is not the same as class, but just as a counter anecdote, my dad is a (small business) plumber and I never felt like we were treated less than any other middle class family. If anything, it seemed like people were often really grateful and giving random gifts like food from gardens or tickets to local events.
In America, a skilled tradesman is middle class. There would be no reason to treat a member of the group any differently. (Incidentally my grandpa was a plumber.)
A teacher is lower upper class though. Teaching is used by some as an early step to a political career — I have a couple of friends who have done so. They don’t have an upper class income, but teachers have the merits to be high class.
> If anything, it seemed like people were often really grateful and giving random gifts like food from gardens or tickets to local events.
If they didn't do that to other middle class families then they saw you as less than them. Seeing people as less comes both with charity and contempt, not just one of those.
There isn't as much contempt for the rich as there should be. The poor despise themselves for being poor, instead of the rich for making them that way.
Growing up half in England and US I feel British culture is more attuned to the class aspects to this kind of event. Traditionally America likes to pretend this kind of class contempt doesn't exist (think of, people on welfare angry at welfare queens, unaware they will be affected by legislation they support).